I have a project Bronco and the time has come to paint it, and I have a few questions:
1) Should I use automotive paint or oil base enamel and why?
2) How do I remove the large stick on stripping that came on the Bronco from the factory?
3) What do I do about surface rust?
As always any advice would be appreciated?
P.S.
This is an 83' model I am going to paint the Bronco a brick red color, rims will be black as will the bumpers.
Paint
Started by
Straight6
, Aug 21 2004 02:53 PM
18 replies to this topic
#2
hawk2100n
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Posted 21 August 2004 - 07:44 PM
the striping can come of in a variety of ways, a flat razor blade or if you daring you could try to sand it off. the razor blade and lacker thinner might be the best. then sand out any of the scratches along with the rest of the truck. as for paint, i think my truck has an acyrilic enamel with a clear coat. i had it done professionally though. it all depends on how much you want to spend. as for the surface rust, it depends how deep it is. if it is real light, get some OSPHO (a greenish fluid usually available at boating and hardware stores) and lightly coat it. this will neutralise the rust. then, sand all of the rotten metal out. if necessary, fill with bondo. make shure to ask around for more suggestions and tips. good luck 
#3
Broncoscare
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Posted 22 August 2004 - 09:23 AM
Hey, I have just finished painting my bronco , myself and I will try andself-etching primer on any help you all I can. The first thing is, how much do you want to spend? If this is more of a daily driver/show truck vs hittin' the trails on the weekends but still looking good, I would go with automotive paint, but if not go for the acyrilic enamel. Acyrilic enamel is much cheaper and depending on who paints it, it could look just as good as regular auto paint. Automotive paint is just gonna be expensive either way you go.
The best way to remove the stripping is with a putty knife slowly go down the sides and peel as you go. If any chemical is used I would lean more towards de-greeser. Laquer thinner can lead you to more problems if you are not use to using it. But both will work.
To prep for paint I would hit it with 180 grit paper and just see how the rust comes up. Go to a lower grit if needed but dont go crazy with it. After rust is removed you will need to put self-etching primer on all rust spots. Tis will convert all rust and make it a good paintable surface.
I hope this will help you in you decisions. Today I just added pics of my bronco to my profile page, you can check those out and I amy a ceritified body repair tech, just finished school at the first of this month
Cindy (Broncoscare)
The best way to remove the stripping is with a putty knife slowly go down the sides and peel as you go. If any chemical is used I would lean more towards de-greeser. Laquer thinner can lead you to more problems if you are not use to using it. But both will work.
To prep for paint I would hit it with 180 grit paper and just see how the rust comes up. Go to a lower grit if needed but dont go crazy with it. After rust is removed you will need to put self-etching primer on all rust spots. Tis will convert all rust and make it a good paintable surface.
I hope this will help you in you decisions. Today I just added pics of my bronco to my profile page, you can check those out and I amy a ceritified body repair tech, just finished school at the first of this month
Cindy (Broncoscare)
#4
Straight6
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Posted 23 August 2004 - 02:54 PM
Thanks to all for the advice. But now I have a few different questions:
1) What is self-etching primer and where can I get it?
2) How does it react with bondo ( the fenders have some heavy rusted spots).
3) Can I use paint remover to remove the stripping it is not in good condition and I think the putty knief/razor blade may not work so well.
4) How does OSPHO react to bondo and what should I do about it?
5) If I decide to use enamel what is the best application method cup sprayer or pressure pot?
This Bronco will not be a daily driver it is mainly for the beach, camping, and hunting so I would like a durable finish that looks decent it does not need to be perfect. As for myself I am in the woodworking business and have done some finishing on wood but not on autos.
1) What is self-etching primer and where can I get it?
2) How does it react with bondo ( the fenders have some heavy rusted spots).
3) Can I use paint remover to remove the stripping it is not in good condition and I think the putty knief/razor blade may not work so well.
4) How does OSPHO react to bondo and what should I do about it?
5) If I decide to use enamel what is the best application method cup sprayer or pressure pot?
This Bronco will not be a daily driver it is mainly for the beach, camping, and hunting so I would like a durable finish that looks decent it does not need to be perfect. As for myself I am in the woodworking business and have done some finishing on wood but not on autos.
#5
cjbronco
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Posted 23 August 2004 - 05:06 PM
I have just started to pep my 82 truck for paint. I am having it as a daily driver so i am puttin automotive paint on it. A buddy of mine has a shop so he is doing it for me other wise, check out a NAPA or ebay for some auto paitn, should be cheap enough. I am also done taking of the strips, and man WHAT A PAIN IN THE ASS!! After being on there more more than 20 yrs they dont want to come off. I tried using a razor, but if you slip, then you get down to the bare metal and it will jsut make the sanding job uneven. Best thing is used was a plastic puddy knife w/a 45* edge on it and i used a hot air gun. They cam off pretty well with that. IF you have residue lef over just use some paint thinner or adhesive remover. 
#6
Broncoscare
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- Interests: Hi, my name is Cindy and I own a 1991 Ford Bronco I have just finished adding,Spray-in bed liner, New custom paint job, and a new interior. This is a working progress, right now the interior is totally out just waiting for the new to go inside. I plan to add a 4 or 6 in lift with 35s. That will come next year I am sure.
Posted 23 August 2004 - 06:50 PM
Self etching primer is just a type of primer that adheres to bare metal and etches into the metal for full contact making it ready for primer/paint. It is fine with bondo. Wjat you would do is repair the whole body like you want it, bondo n all, then use the etching primer on any bare metal spots, then prime the whole truck. I would check with auto parts stores first, but I know you can buy it from www.eastwood.com.
You can use any gun you want I like hvlp, cup type, but thats my personal choice.
You can use any gun you want I like hvlp, cup type, but thats my personal choice.
#7
Guest_Joe Dirt_*
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Posted 09 October 2004 - 04:03 PM
Old post/New member here
First of all the rust you see is not from the paint. It is from the metal. Just sanding the paint will not fix the rust. Rust is nothing more than oxidized iron and they don't use iron in the paint. The only way to repair rust is to get it down to bare metal. There are alot of products on the market that claim they "convert" rust to metal. All that these products do is coat the rust, turn it into a hard substance that is NOT metal. This does give you a surface you can paint on, however you can paint on rust also. You still have rust. Painting is like a chain...it is only as good as the weakest link.
Anyway enough about rust.
Self etch primer should only be used on bare metal and make sure you read the label and pay attention to flash times. If you use Dupont...double the flashtime on their self etch primer. AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD....USE A RESPIRATOR they only cost about $30. Well worth it!!!
If you use an enamal paint...pay the extra few dollars and buy the catalyst for it. This makes it more chemical resistant. But keep in mind there is little or now UV protection with this paint.
I prefer the basecoat/clearcoat paints. They are easier to spray, easier to repair when that time comes, and they last forever if you apply them right.
No matter what paint you go with do not.....do not put anywax on it for at least 180 days. This will trap all of the solvents in the paint and it will all fall off!!!
I have found that to paint a truck the right way....there is not a cheap way. The products cost alot but if you do it right....you should never have to do it again.
Any other questions about paint just holler!!!!
First of all the rust you see is not from the paint. It is from the metal. Just sanding the paint will not fix the rust. Rust is nothing more than oxidized iron and they don't use iron in the paint. The only way to repair rust is to get it down to bare metal. There are alot of products on the market that claim they "convert" rust to metal. All that these products do is coat the rust, turn it into a hard substance that is NOT metal. This does give you a surface you can paint on, however you can paint on rust also. You still have rust. Painting is like a chain...it is only as good as the weakest link.
Anyway enough about rust.
Self etch primer should only be used on bare metal and make sure you read the label and pay attention to flash times. If you use Dupont...double the flashtime on their self etch primer. AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD....USE A RESPIRATOR they only cost about $30. Well worth it!!!
If you use an enamal paint...pay the extra few dollars and buy the catalyst for it. This makes it more chemical resistant. But keep in mind there is little or now UV protection with this paint.
I prefer the basecoat/clearcoat paints. They are easier to spray, easier to repair when that time comes, and they last forever if you apply them right.
No matter what paint you go with do not.....do not put anywax on it for at least 180 days. This will trap all of the solvents in the paint and it will all fall off!!!
I have found that to paint a truck the right way....there is not a cheap way. The products cost alot but if you do it right....you should never have to do it again.
Any other questions about paint just holler!!!!
#8
Guest_Joe Dirt_*
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Posted 09 October 2004 - 04:12 PM
OH yea...I forgot the stripes can be a pain to remove but there are options.
They make a tool that spins and has an eraser on it....yes...just like what is on your pencil. If done right it will remove all decals and adhesive and not harm the paint...as long as the paint is not already peeling off. Another option that is out there but I have NEVER had any luck with is 3-m makes a decal remover that comes in a spray can.
Methol Ethol Ketone (MEK) Works better than paint thinner but alot of times you just end up smearing the adhesive all over making a big nasty mess.
One other option that works well is a heat gun and and your hand. just heat up about six inches (don't get it to hot) and peel up the corner and start pulling as you heat the decal up.
If I didn't already have the eraser tool I personaly would take the rig to a bodyshop and see how much they would charge to remove the decal. Then try a detail shop. They all have this tool....it is one of those trade secrets they don't like the general public to know about. Price check at your paint store the cost of the tool and it may be cheaper to just buy it
Norton makes a product called "General Purpose Cleaner" comes in a little quart sqeeze can, pretty cheap and works well to get any left over adhesive off your truck
They make a tool that spins and has an eraser on it....yes...just like what is on your pencil. If done right it will remove all decals and adhesive and not harm the paint...as long as the paint is not already peeling off. Another option that is out there but I have NEVER had any luck with is 3-m makes a decal remover that comes in a spray can.
Methol Ethol Ketone (MEK) Works better than paint thinner but alot of times you just end up smearing the adhesive all over making a big nasty mess.
One other option that works well is a heat gun and and your hand. just heat up about six inches (don't get it to hot) and peel up the corner and start pulling as you heat the decal up.
If I didn't already have the eraser tool I personaly would take the rig to a bodyshop and see how much they would charge to remove the decal. Then try a detail shop. They all have this tool....it is one of those trade secrets they don't like the general public to know about. Price check at your paint store the cost of the tool and it may be cheaper to just buy it
Norton makes a product called "General Purpose Cleaner" comes in a little quart sqeeze can, pretty cheap and works well to get any left over adhesive off your truck
#9
Straight6
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Posted 12 October 2004 - 06:56 PM
Joe thanks for the reply it is informative but also a little confusing. I was going to use an off of the shelf enamel paint (Rustolem) because I have had good luck with it before and because it is cheaper and more durable than auto paint (so I thought). But I have never heard of a catalyst used with enamal paint before but than again I have limited experience with paint, I mostly do stain and clear coat finishing on cabinets and other wood products. Also would you futher explain basecoat/clearcoat paint, and can a simple metal primer be used instead of the etched primer?
As for the decals, I removed the tailgate decals with an orbital sander and a 150 grit pad it worked great.
Thanks for the reply.
As for the decals, I removed the tailgate decals with an orbital sander and a 150 grit pad it worked great.
Thanks for the reply.
#10
Justshootme84
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Posted 12 October 2004 - 07:20 PM
I'll add my two cents worth of info for the paint. If you use the cheap stuff like Rustoleum or even the rattle-can brands, the paint will not last more than a year or so. The "prep" work is critical, which includes dent removal, cutting out any rusted panels and replacing with new sheetmetal, sanding, and quality primer and paint. There's several types of paint, including enamel, laquer, urethane, etc. The best quality paints are from such folks as DuPont or PPG. Price will range from $100/gallon on up. It should take about 1-1/4 gal. to paint the Bronco. The actual paint is your basecoat, and then you apply clearcoat over it. Just use the type that calls for a clearcoat.
If your paint is decent, you can prime right over it after sanding. If you have rust, you need to remove all of it, even if it means sanding to bare metal. That's where the self-etching primer comes in. Remember that if you paint over existing/factory paint or primer, there's a chance that it will bubble up or peel off and take the new paint with it. Talk to a couple of body shops and ask lots of questions while getting an estimate. You'll find that the good ones will charge about $3000 for the entire job. You can cut that down to $400-$500 by doing it yourself, as alot of that cost is labor and prep. Cleanliness is number one in a successful job, and you may even be able to rent a paint booth.
I was lucky enough to have a friend that retired after 35 years in the body & paint business do the work on my Bronco. He works at home now, just doing show vehicles now and then. I learned alot of info from him and got a great paint job for $1300. It has 4 coats of paint and 4 coats of clear with a sealer & hardener.
If your paint is decent, you can prime right over it after sanding. If you have rust, you need to remove all of it, even if it means sanding to bare metal. That's where the self-etching primer comes in. Remember that if you paint over existing/factory paint or primer, there's a chance that it will bubble up or peel off and take the new paint with it. Talk to a couple of body shops and ask lots of questions while getting an estimate. You'll find that the good ones will charge about $3000 for the entire job. You can cut that down to $400-$500 by doing it yourself, as alot of that cost is labor and prep. Cleanliness is number one in a successful job, and you may even be able to rent a paint booth.
I was lucky enough to have a friend that retired after 35 years in the body & paint business do the work on my Bronco. He works at home now, just doing show vehicles now and then. I learned alot of info from him and got a great paint job for $1300. It has 4 coats of paint and 4 coats of clear with a sealer & hardener.
1984 Bronco XLT, 351W H.O., C-6 AT, Ford 9", SkyJ 6" lift, 35" tires on MT Classic rims, S&W Racecars 10-pt cage kit, custom "shaker" assembly.
1988 Bronco Custom, 302 EFI, C-6 AT, Ford 8.8". parting out
1986 Bronco Custom, 300I-6, NP435
1988 Bronco Custom, 302 EFI, C-6 AT, Ford 8.8". parting out
1986 Bronco Custom, 300I-6, NP435
#11
Broncoholics
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Posted 13 October 2004 - 09:01 AM
Just an FYI- I used a polyurathane type paint which has the clear coat within.
This stuff is super strong and doens't scratch easily. I used it on my 68 bronco that see nothing but off road. Sure I have some scratches but nothing like what normal enamels would show after rubbing trees and rocks!
This stuff is super strong and doens't scratch easily. I used it on my 68 bronco that see nothing but off road. Sure I have some scratches but nothing like what normal enamels would show after rubbing trees and rocks!
Wheel it like you stole it!
#13
Guest_custom_78_*
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Posted 13 October 2004 - 02:53 PM
I'm going to be painting my bronco in a couple of weeks and I'm going to use acrylic enamel white paint. It has the clear coat already in it and has a great shine. It can even be wet sanded to give a orange peel less shine.
#14
Justshootme84
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Posted 13 October 2004 - 06:28 PM
S6, you can get the paint from most auto supply stores like CarQuest or NAPA, and the reason I used the urethane-type paint is for the hardness for offroading.
1984 Bronco XLT, 351W H.O., C-6 AT, Ford 9", SkyJ 6" lift, 35" tires on MT Classic rims, S&W Racecars 10-pt cage kit, custom "shaker" assembly.
1988 Bronco Custom, 302 EFI, C-6 AT, Ford 8.8". parting out
1986 Bronco Custom, 300I-6, NP435
1988 Bronco Custom, 302 EFI, C-6 AT, Ford 8.8". parting out
1986 Bronco Custom, 300I-6, NP435
#17
Justshootme84
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Posted 15 October 2004 - 02:17 PM
S6, if you're in Houston, I'll hook you up with my paint dude out of Wharton that did my Bronco. Just send me a PM. I know he bought the paint from one of his sources in H'town for about half of what the stores wanted. JSM84
1984 Bronco XLT, 351W H.O., C-6 AT, Ford 9", SkyJ 6" lift, 35" tires on MT Classic rims, S&W Racecars 10-pt cage kit, custom "shaker" assembly.
1988 Bronco Custom, 302 EFI, C-6 AT, Ford 8.8". parting out
1986 Bronco Custom, 300I-6, NP435
1988 Bronco Custom, 302 EFI, C-6 AT, Ford 8.8". parting out
1986 Bronco Custom, 300I-6, NP435
#19
Guest_Joe Dirt_*
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Posted 15 October 2004 - 04:51 PM
Sorry it took so long for the reply...been busy, Anyway Just shoot me summed it all up as well if not better than I could have.
The one thing I like about the basecoat/clearcoat (also known as 2 stage paint) is that if you run it...good chance of that...you can repair it real easily. When you use a "single stage" paint and you have metalics in it...you WILL NEVER get rid of it.
The Catalyst I was talking about for the enamal is with automotive paint. Not rattle cans. If I were you I would find out who supplies your local bodyshops with paint and go to them. In my area, Montana, it is carquest.
Dupont has a line called Imron, alot of hotroders like this paint because it is really shiny and cheap. However it will start to loose it's shine after about 3 years.
One thing to keep in mind is alot of people think that the more coats of clear you put on the better, the stronger, it will be. This is not true. If you follow the paint company's recomendations you will be happy. If you get it to thick it will be more prone to rock chips.
If you paint your fiberglass top I would recomend a flex additive. The fiberglass actually expands and contracts quite a bit with normal temperature changes.
The one thing I like about the basecoat/clearcoat (also known as 2 stage paint) is that if you run it...good chance of that...you can repair it real easily. When you use a "single stage" paint and you have metalics in it...you WILL NEVER get rid of it.
The Catalyst I was talking about for the enamal is with automotive paint. Not rattle cans. If I were you I would find out who supplies your local bodyshops with paint and go to them. In my area, Montana, it is carquest.
Dupont has a line called Imron, alot of hotroders like this paint because it is really shiny and cheap. However it will start to loose it's shine after about 3 years.
One thing to keep in mind is alot of people think that the more coats of clear you put on the better, the stronger, it will be. This is not true. If you follow the paint company's recomendations you will be happy. If you get it to thick it will be more prone to rock chips.
If you paint your fiberglass top I would recomend a flex additive. The fiberglass actually expands and contracts quite a bit with normal temperature changes.
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